The Roaming not work, and users disconnect constantly even not move around.

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I have a network with 16 AP (10 R500 and 6 R300) and a 1200 controller,2 SSID with WPA/AES and i need use a softphone but i have the next issue with some users:
All the Iphone ́s was disconnect constantly
An a Samsung Note 4 lost wifi signal and block the wifi networks when it moves of a R500 to a R300 (We need to turn on and off the airplane mode to resolve the issue)
More than 10 users with laptops HP and wireless card ralink rt3290 can not connect with the network (i upgrade the drivers and some laptops can connect now but the navigation on the net was terrible slow)
When i walk through the office and change of one AP to another and if i am in a call this ends, and the use of softphone it is very important in this project.

I hope anyone can help me.
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Javier Sanchez

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  • frustrated

Posted 2 years ago

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Michael Brado, Official Rep

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I think you should go to Tech Support.
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Sean

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If you are using 9.10 MR1and have force dhcp enabled you will have a roaming issues - this will be fixed in 9.10 MR2 and 9.12MR2

Solution is if you have force dhcp enabled is to disable this function to solve roaming issues.
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Javier Sanchez

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Thanks i will try it, and comment how work it.
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Sean

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NP I know that disabling it fixed for me when i tried it, but we need force DHCP so I have had to downgrade to 9.10 GA.
(Edited)
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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If "force dhcp" turns out not to be your problem, ask your support rep if the "smartroam" feature is appropriate for your location/application.
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John D, AlphaDog

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I'm a little afraid that if his issue involves users disconnecting already, SmartRoam might only serve to make that worse. 
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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Yes. That could be. (which is why I hedged by asking him to consult w/ ruckus support)
..but my reading (which could be incorrect) was that he had (both) difficulties w/ devices that were physically roaming and having a "stuck client" issue as well as stationary devices that were losing connectivity.

If he's got an environment where the client devices are very uniform/controlled, he may have options for reconfiguring wireless preferences on every device that needs to run a soft-phone.
(and that may be necessary for a soft-phone environment)
..or maybe he has options for going w/ spectralink (hard) WiFi phones but those are all client-side solutions...

Failing that, the only way *I* (who does not know everything) can think to address stuck client issues is w/ smartroam. (maybe combined w/ a high density of APs)

I do not know how to address the issue w/ stationary clients losing connectivity.
If anyone else does know how to fix that problem (and if this "force DHCP" tweak doesn't fix things) please chime in.
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Sid Sok, Official Rep

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Hi Javier,

First I would separate your problem into two different event, one is the client constantly disconnecting even when the client is not "roaming" and two, client stop working after a roam.

For the first issue, it's kind of hard to say if the client is truly not roaming, even stationary client can "roam" between APs under the correct, or better description is under the wrong condition. You should be able to review the controller log to see if the client is truly changing APs or not.  If it is not "roaming" and you are still "disconnecting", please verify if the client is still associated but just can not pass traffic.  I have seen a few case where this was the case where client's seem to loose IP connectivity for a while and was still associated to the AP.  If this is the case 9.12MR2, which should be released soon, should fix that.

For the second issue, Bill is probably correct, it's either a sticky client issue and the client is stuck on an inappropriate AP.  The only thing that I would suggest that is different is not to use Smartroam if you have Apple OS or iOS, as they have an automatic blacklist feature where too many kick via smartroam will trigger this feature and keep the client from connecting to the wlan again for sometime.  Depending on the AP density, I would use a higher BSS minrate to ensure that the client can not hear an AP's beacon when it's too far away, this way it will be the client decision to roam if it can't hear the AP's beacon at 12 Mbps for example.  You can use BSS min rate and Smartroam at the same time but it's generally not needed.

Without any more data to go on, I would suggest two things:
1. upgrade to 9.12MR2 as soon at it comes out
2. set the wlan BSS min rate to 12

Force DHCP should should not be needed/used, it was originally designed to keep people from statically configuring a client with the same IP as the Gateway or the controller causing network issue, it was not designed to help a client roam.

Sid
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John D, AlphaDog

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I have SmartRoam configured at level 1 (5dBm). Reasoning: Being connected to such a ridiculously low wifi signal on my site is worse than just not being connected to wifi at all.

I don't use ofdm-only (some AA battery powered wifi devices like smart scales are still 802.11b). I have bss-minrate set at 5.5, and load+band balancing enabled with no further tweaks.

I have relatively low density of AP's and clients (3-5 AP's per site, about 10 clients per AP). However, both locations have high speed internet (100mbit to 200mbit) and clients are sensitive to requiring bursts of full speed internet.

One site covers a large outdoor area (pool) and offers free guest internet as a good neighborly deed. Almost all the clients are dual-band, and on average, the only clients on 2.4GHz are 2.4GHZ-only clients. The one exception I've noticed is that smartphones under roaming stress (e.g. rapidly walking between rooms) will often fall back to 2.4GHz for a few minutes before roaming back to 5GHz, which is fine.


On my site, I actually have one machine in each room doing around-the-clock random bandwidth testing and so I am very aware if usable throughput ever falls below 100mbit for a station.

On the other site (my parents' mansion), there's one heavy social media user and two nontechnical parents. I occasionally get complaints about wifi connectivity/performance but so far that's mainly been due to their ISP having downtime.

I find that most users don't complain about connectivity/performance issues unless they're extremely severe. But of course that depends on who you're dealing with. I'm every IT desk's worst nightmare — I've routinely complained for wifi speeds getting below 80-100mbit.
(Edited)
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Sean

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smart-roam level 4
bss-minrate 24
band-balancing set to 0%
load balancing set to 17dB on each radio (enough for any client to obtain top bitrate).

I have the same configuration on one off my stadium designs and I also use proxy-arp & vlan pooling (router confgured with loopback interface)

Concurrent sessions are around about 10,000 with the seating capacity in the bowl of 30,000 in the venue.

My SCI says that the achievable throughput per client, when the network is loaded, is 19.1Mbps per client.
(Edited)
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Michael Brado, Official Rep

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Thsse are highest/extreme case settings Sean, maybe ok for your density.  Typically, keep Smartroam <= 3, bss-minrate <= 12.
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John D, AlphaDog

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Yeah, I guess for a stadium those numbers make sense, but in a lower density office setting I can't imagine using settings like that. Even SmartRoam set to 2 occasionally kicks clients that are doing fine, at 3 it gets to the point where it can be noticeable.

I've also noticed that a good deal of smart phones seem to use either weak or variable transmit power and form this situation where the AP sees the RSSI as 5 or 6 but the client seems  to have no issue SpeedFlexing at 100+ down, 50+ up. Those guys would get kicked even at a roam factor of 2, which seems overkill unless it's a high density setting.
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Sean

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It all comes down to cell overlap and network design.

The way I look at it nobody designs networks these days to accommodate 12Mbps rate (4dB SNR), so why waste your airtime broadcasting those rates.

Just my opinion though :)
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Javier Sanchez

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Thanks for your help, i actually upgrade the system to 9.12 and works better, now i try with the Min rate and comment my results.

Kind regards
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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'though this post recommends smartroam and smartroam may not be an appropriate solution for you, there may be other things about it that help...
https://forums.ruckuswireless.com/ruckuswireless/topics/best-practice-configs-for-a-high-density-dep...
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Mike Clark

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On the ZD models we noticed roaming will not work with WPA make sure you have security set to WPA2.
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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Do you mean the ZoneFlex (ZF) models?
..as opposed to ZD? (APs connected to Zone Director controllers)

Do you mean that you think non ZF APs (like the R300, R500, R700, R710) do not have this problem or do you suspect that all Ruckus APs may have this issue?

..or do you mean that any Ruckus AP connected to a ZoneDirector has this issue?
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Sean

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I've not seen this issue

We use WPA/Mixed on our 802.1x SSID with 802.11r and k enabled and never had any issues with roaming.

What FW are you running?
(Edited)
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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John + Sean:

Sid is the best Ruckus support agent I know of.
He's suggesting bss-minrate (and avoiding smartroam) as the best solution for rapidly-roaming stationary clients and iOS devices that may "give up" after being repeatedly kicked.

Please let me know if the following summary is accurate:

Roaming issues:
John:Y   Sean:N    Bill:Y

smartroam
John:1   Sean:4    Bill:1/2

ofdm-only
John:N   Sean:Y    Bill:Y

bss-minrate
John:5.5 Sean:24   Bill:12/24

load-balancing
John:Y   Sean:17dB Bill:N

band-balancing
John:Y   Sean:0%   Bill:N


We all have smartroam configured but Sean is the only one not reporting roaming issues.
Sean also has the highest bss-minrate of "24" across the board.
(I'm showing configs for my outdoor public access areas, where I have a bss-minrate of "12" for the 2.4Ghz spectrum and "24" for the 5Ghz spectrum)
Sean's smartroam setting seems very aggressive at a roaming factor of "4".

I wonder if that aggressive roaming factor may be "saving" him from smartroam problems.
My understanding is that a smartroam "kick" will happen when the client is seen to cross the threshold from the "strong" side to the "weak" side of the roaming factor. With a roaming factor that high, a client might never roam to another AP (due to a kick) unless it's in a very high density of AP situation.

Following that rationale, maybe we should try a bss-minrate of "24" across the board?
I'm not sure I'd want to try that in areas w/ a lot of cinder-block, etc. but maybe in places where I'm not concerned about the AP density being too light to support it.

Opinions?
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John D, AlphaDog

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Bill, thanks for summarizing this info, but I think there's too many unknown factors to support this conclusion.

The connectivity issues that I'm referring to, and awfully similar to what Sid has mentioned, involves mostly desktop / laptop / streaming TV settop box type clients after *days* of uptime. In Sean's environment (stadium/convention center), it's very unlikely that there are any of these types of clients, and it's even less likely that any particular client hangs around for that long. Plus, their users are unlikely to complain about momentary connectivity issues, and probably just shrug it off and toggle wifi. I was at Levi's Stadium not too long ago, and their wifi (I believe Aruba based) kicked me off to LTE every few minutes. I never complained, I just grumbled and went into Settings and reconnected every time I wanted to use my phone. You have to wonder how much that happens in a stadium style deployment.

I don't think a minrate of 24 or an aggressive roam factor of 4 is a good idea for most deployments, unless you are truly aiming for high density / max throughput at any cost. I can guarantee you that for streaming video or VOIP clients or folks using smartphones while walking around, using either setting recommended above virtually guarantees clients will be kicked off the wifi network briefly, which can be very annoying for VOIP / streaming.
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Sean

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Yeah you would be insane to have smart-roam enabled on a SSID carrying voice traffic as smart-roam uses a reason code to de-auth the client.

I think it's reason code 3:
Deauthenticated because sending STA is leaving (or has left) IBSS or ESS
(Edited)
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John D, AlphaDog

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Right, and fortunately/unfortunately, these days many clients are inherently voice or video. Like now with wifi calling, almost every smartphone has turned into a IPv6 VOIP handset. It's actually great for the most part, but I have definitely seen cases where aggressive kicking or those rapid initial ChannelFly transitions resulting in dropped calls or audio stuttering.
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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John:

Yes, I can see that your standard for "good" could be very different from Sean's.

BTW:
What do you use to automate your "around-the-clock random bandwidth testing"?
(Edited)
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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John:

I would assume that Javier's environment includes areas of indoor coverage w/ "light" construction that's not very challenging to WiFi propogation, that his APs have good overlapping coverage, that there's no interference from competing WiFi or other devices, that his channel plan is "stable" (with APs not changing channels often) and that his iPhones (when in those areas) still "disconnect constantly".
Hopefully Javier can confirm all those things.

Do you think it's possible for Javier to adequately describe his environment's "unknown factors"?
or.. that his issue goes beyond what can be addressed in a forum like this?

I'm noticing that Javier is using beam-forming R500s and non-beam forming R300s.
(and having problems when physically roaming from R500s to R300s)
Personally, I would use the R500s and R300s in different areas, as opposed to using them close together in "unobstructed" areas.

If Javier puts all his R500s in one area and R300s in another:
It would be interesting to know if Javier still sees his iPhone problems in areas w/ R300s or only in areas w/ R500s.
(Edited)
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Sean

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(Edited)
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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I stand corrected.
(which makes the "wall switch" APs the only non-beamforming Ruckus APs...)

What do you think explains the repeatable difficulty in roaming from an R500 to an R300 then?
Maybe the beamflex gain on an R500 is much greater than that of an R300?

..or just something specific to Javier's environment?
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Javier Sanchez

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Thanks for all your answers actually the environment it's very complicated i have 45 Aps neighbours, the materials of construction included Glass, concrete, stone, metal, and on the VIP areas a lot of wood (real wood, cedro).The iphone issues occurs on the 2 sides on R500 to R300, right now i change my settings for a Ruckus peticion and now i feel the network works better.
I put the smart-roam on 3, and i check the power of all my APs do not have more power of overlapping than 30 to 40 %.

My frecuency works on 2.4 on 20 Mhz and 5.0 auto.

I comment any changes or result.

Kind Regards.
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Bill Burns, AlphaDog

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Glad to hear things are working better.

Having 45 "foreign" APs competing w/ your 16 sounds pretty severe.

I'm not sure what "on the 2 sides on R500 to R300" means. or "peticion".

Your VIP areas sound less obstructed.

Concrete, stone and metal are more of an issue when they're in interior locations, as opposed to exterior walls. (and assuming you're mostly concerned w/ indoor coverage)
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Javier Sanchez

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yes i only use indoor and i try to say the problem subsist on the 2 models of AP.