I ordered 801-1205-5000 watchdog contract from a reseller, now what?

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Hello, roughly 24hrs ago I ordered a 801-1205-5000 5yrs watchdog support for my ZD1205 because I want to have software upgrades for my ZD and attached APs (4 r700 and upcoming 1 r720), being an home user/enthusiast with no business connections I literally bought it from the first google result reseller that looked legit, used Paypal and offered international orders (I’m in EU), namely “Barcode Discount” based in Chicago (parent company is Barcodes LLC that operates a number of similar sites).

Now while I wait for my (very pricey, for a home user) order to be honored, I’m growing puzzled about the whole process. Just puzzled for now. First of all, one would expect like a 5 minutes instant digital delivery, but apparently 2-3 days will be needed. (honestly Ruckus should just put a giant “buy premium support with Paypal” button in the ZD dashboard, why they don’t do it and force you thru sales channels is beyond me, but I digress). After an hour I called the reseller (thanks Skype for cheap overseas calls) to ask about the whole process and they said that in the coming days Ruckus themselves would honor the order via email. I find it weird, how so? I paid the reseller and never told them the S/N of my ZD. They have my email of course. And I’m from another world region.

Getting all this to work is also a prerequisite for buying my next R720 ap because otherwise my ZD1205 on an old software would not support it...

So, tldr, I dropped a lot of money on an order and I’m puzzled about the whole process, reseller CS said Ruckus will honor, if tomorrow none of the involved parties (the reseller or Ruckus) digitally delivers my watchdog activation code I will have to make some calls via Skype again...
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jjbase

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Posted 6 months ago

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jjbase

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And by the way, when the ZD1205 get EOL-ed, will I still be able to update my attached r720 to the lastest firmware within my 5 year support?
I assume the r720 will be EOL-ed well after the ZD1200.
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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as a standalone AP, firmware updates are available at no cost.
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jjbase

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The American shop just emailed me that they can’t sell the service outside US...maybe stop international addresses from ordering so nobody’s time is wasted? I swear one of these sites (not Barcode Discount) has a banner that reads “international orders are welcome”.
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Shane Ferguson

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If you by from an authorised  reseller/partner  they should send you the activation codes once they received them from their distributor.

 If the reseller is the same as the one you bought your hardware from they can on your behalf apply the support contract to the relevant serial numbers in the partner portal.

There have been delays in recent times with ruckus generating support codes due to there transitional state of ownership,  but I believe this has now been resolved.

I have found that there online chat support is very useful.
If you have proof of purchase they may be able to sort out the activation of your support for you. 

This is all based on my experience as a Ruckus  Wireless  Partner.
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jjbase

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Thank you for the insight coming from a Partner.

The US based shop canceled my order, they suddenly realized they don’t sell Ruckus product outside US.

I am currently in talks with the Product Manager for Ruckus products at a local service provider that will put me in contact with a local reseller, apparently.

I will keep you updated.

Meanwhile Paypal is gonna hold my money from the American canceled order for 30 days because a pending payment that was never rescued cannot be easily revoked without jumping thru hoops with faxes and stuff between vendor and bank...always think twice before hitting that paypal button...and thank you Barcode Discount for letting me complete the order in the first place...
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jjbase

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While I wait for the reseller contact, I’d like to ask:
- what’s the difference between normal (801-xxx...) and renew (821-xxx...)? they look like they cost roughly the same? what’s the one to buy when you have no active support? (I assumed 801-xxx..., just want to be sure)
- how adding AP licenses work? is it a one off payment or a yearly cost? Like, if I wanna bring my ZD1205 from 5 APs to 6 APs, I can upgrade it with a one time payment and the upgrade lasts forever? Since I’m already in talks with a reseller..
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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- what’s the difference between normal (801-xxx...) and renew (821-xxx...)? they look like they cost roughly the same? what’s the one to buy when you have no active support? (I assumed 801-xxx..., just want to be sure) -- Yes, you go with 801 Part no.

how adding AP licenses work? is it a one off payment or a yearly cost? Like, if I wanna bring my ZD1205 from 5 APs to 6 APs, I can upgrade it with a one time payment and the upgrade lasts forever? Since I’m already in talks with a reseller..
yes, its a permanent/perpetual lic which cannot be transferred except in RMA situation.
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jjbase

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Ok, I’m gradually discovering a number of things

- 801 type contracts are only for new hardware or within 180 days

- so I should buy a 821 type contract to “renew” even if I never had watchdog before, “renewal” is counterintuitive wording guys

- apparently I need to pay back for support lapse from day 1 before adding more support?!?! I read it in a support document:


http://a030f85c1e25003d7609-b98377aee...


and I need to renew for 3 years minimum?!?


All of this to get a software update to support recent APs...
(Edited)
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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when did you buy your device?... if it is more then 180 days old now from date of purchase. you may not be able to buy 1yr support contract in my experience however there is an option of buying 3yr support contract in one shot in case if you have not bought or renewed support contract in time...
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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well if it is for controller support contract then when you buy 1yr or 3yr you get adv replacement of controller + techincal support + software upgrade. your AP's also get software upgraded auto as an when you upgrade the controller. So if you are really keen on having support contract for AP too then you can simply consider support contract starting with PN 803..
for example -- " 803-R720-1000 WatchDog Advanced Hardware Replacement for ZoneFlex R720, 1 year "
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jjbase

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From chat support:

From your initial problem description I understand that you are looking for the support status of the device : xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (edited) and looking for purchase support.

Please note that the device noes not have a purchased support. Hence this will be processed as a new support purchase and there will be no backdating on this as per my knowledge.

so...backdating or no backdating? 801 or 821?
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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here is the part no for 3yrs support, just for the controller with 5 AP's only

802-1205-3000
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jjbase

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thanks...that would be the “partner” support SKU...they’ll call me tomorrow morning...I’ll see what they offer me...
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KJ

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Would love to hear how you get on, as I'm also looking just for firmware update on my ZD1205 (ZD1200 + 5 licenses, as you got) + 3x R710. My hope is that I need to buy the 3-year End-User WatchDog support just for the ZD1205, and that firmware updates will flow automatically to the licensed APs — but my understanding is that I also need to buy WD support for each of my three R710, which would really suck.
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jjbase

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Hi, I placed the order with my local reseller, they said I will pay 336€ + VAT for a 3 year contract for the ZD1205 (never even asked me about what APs I use), not sure how much of that is their cut for the sale, now I think they’re waiting for Ruckus to generate the activation code, I haven’t heard from the reseller for 3 working days. (I yet have to pay a dime)

The APs’ firmware, at least the firmware used in their ZD-connected mode, I think it will be updated thru the ZD as usual, so you will have up to date both the ZD and the connected APs. Yes the existence of watchdog SKUs related to upgrade APs licenses is confusing but I gave up understanding that.

My biggest advice is: THIS IS NOT A DO-IT-YOURSELF PROCESS BY ANY MEANS. (although it should be, it could be literally a one click Paypal quick checkout straight from ruckus own support site, but I’m starting to realize that in general the world of b2b sales and support is a Ponzi scheme where everybody wants his cut, good thing I’m just a home user)

So don’t try too hard to figure it out on your own and don’t waste time with online shops selling watchdog SKUs, instead go thru an official local reseller.
(Edited)
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KJ

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Thanks for the update. That's helpful the recommendation to go through an official local reseller. The reason I'm still following this thread is I started out having an online reseller quote me on the right support contract — and they ended up relaying the serial numbers of my three R710 APs to Ruckus, and then quoting matching 3-yr support contracts for those as well. Then they disappeared when I asked about 1-yr and 2-yr options, and also whether I could update the AP firmware with just the ZD1205 support contract.

The reseller seems pretty well-known in the States as well. Same initials as California's.

I'll try a *local* reseller this time in the hopes they know what's going on. Please let us know if your activation goes through and if you can update your APs' firmware with just the support contract you purchased.
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jjbase

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10 days and still no news from the local reseller...is Ruckus currently so slow to generate support codes? Is it normal?
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Sander Groen

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Hi, I use a ruckus 1205 zonedirector and 3 R500 AP's at home. My support will end at the end of this year and I am also struggling on how and where to extend support for my ZD and ap's. I would be interested to hear on what you will eventually end up buying. Thanks.
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Sander Groen

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I have asked a local reseller regarding a support contract for my zd1205 and 3 R500 ap's. Still waiting for an answer.
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KJ

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Thanks jjbase for updating us. I called Ruckus directly and the nice tech/engineer (not sure what she was exactly) confirmed the right support contract for an end-user with a ZD1205 (ZD1200 + 5 licenses) was 801-1205-1000/3000/5000.

If you have more than five APs hooked up to the ZD1200, you'd have to buy additional support contracts for the extra ones if you want to get firmware to them.

I was then transferred to sales (I think?) who gave me a local reseller contact. I've been holding off on calling her or directly purchasing a contract online because the process seemed to take so long that I was starting to reevaluate whether firmware updates were all that important. The upselling by the online reseller was especially atrocious.

Now that I know there are in fact three stages of hell, I'm even more hesitant.

Good thing the product is so blindingly good (I'm coming from the previous generation equipment from a company starting with "U"), and that the tech support is also wonderful. It's just this support contract buyer's twilight zone that's weirdly convoluted that's turning me way off.
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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KJ
example --- when controller licensed for 10 AP's is managing 10 AP's ... if you firmware upgrade the controller then 10 AP's will auto upgrade too.. this is a normal controller feature and ideally does not need any additional support/license on AP just for this. controller is anyway doing that..

lets say you got controller licensed for 10 AP's and you want to add two more AP's and buy two new AP's. Now you also need to buy controller license to support two additional AP.
(Edited)
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KJ

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That is pretty cool, and what I would have expected but I did not have actual hands-on experience to verify (I have only three R710s connected to my ZD1200 and its five included licenses).

The Ruckus rep I spoke to indicated that what you said was not the case, i.e. adding more APs above your license limit would require buying ZD licenses for each new AP (this part is obvious) but *also* that a support contract for each AP would be necessary to upgrade firmware on those APs.

At the time I thought that seemed reasonable given that the product number for, say, the ZD1200 support contract has a "5" in it, e.g. 801-1205-1000. It made sense that the support was only good to update firmware on up to five licensed APs.

So the fact that firmware updates flow to all (licensed) APs with any ZD support contract is good news indeed. Thanks very much for that real-world clarification!
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Monnat Systems, AlphaDog

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i would like to also add...buying support for AP is primarily for advance replacement of AP in a controller based environment...
(Edited)
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jjbase

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Easter has passed and I’m still waiting...I had a brief email contact with the local reseller last week “I confirm you that the order with Ruckus was placed and you will shortly receive instructions”...
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jjbase

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Well I guess I spoke too soon....DONE!

I just activated my 3 years watchdog contract ending in 2021 thanks to Ruckus chat support.


Turns out, even if you’re a little guy with no big enterprise connections, and the reseller and distributor just keep forgetting about your existence, ONCE the order is placed and visible in the Ruckus order system, you can just skip the reseller and ask directly to Ruckus chat to guide you thru your activation, by pinpointing your order based on the evidence you have (your official email, your SN, the name

of the reseller business, etc.) even if you don’t have the order ID.


Weird thing is that apparently I already burned thru 6 weeks of my contract? Actual starting date is at the end of February 2018, when I originally placed the order with the reseller. Who do I have to thank for leaving me contract-less for a whole month of paid-for contract? Seller? Distributor? Ruckus that didn’t promptly send me an email once the order was honored? Maybe it’s a business practice to let the reseller manage the client so he can be upsold to more services? I’ll probably never know. You people, just know that once the order is placed and honored, you can just ask ruckus chat for your entitlement file or entitlement email, once you and the operator manage to pinpoint your order. Why can’t we just order “soft” support directly from Ruckus is beyond me.


And now off to install my long-coveted 10.x software on my ZD1205, finally..
(Edited)
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KJ

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Thank you so much for following up, and for the insights!

I just submitted payment on a 1yr end-user support contract (801-1205-1000). I've already been speaking with this reseller (e.g. they already know the serial number of my ZD1200) so hopefully this means the activation through them will be quick.

I too am looking forward to the 10.x software — hopefully the graphs will actually work now ....
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Eizens Putnins

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Hi,
It was really interesting to read. I was surprised how much some on-line shops can mess with support. Offul!
Anyway, having 10 years experience with Ruckus I want to state some things clearly.

1. Support policy was changing with Ruckus growing. Warding was always there, but now most written things are really enforced.
2. Without active support, you can't update ZD to any version newer than 9.9, it is enforced. There are some workaround tricks, but they involve factory resetting ZD, so no use for real life.
3. When you have support for ZD, you have software updates both for ZD and APs, as AP always use same firmware version as ZD, and AP firmware is bundled with ZD firmware. Support also includes ZD advance replacement (but not for APs, which have "just" limited life warranty).
4.  AP support actually is advanced replacement for APs, so you most probably don't need it at all. Difference between advance replacement and life time warranty is conditions. With LTW you need to send AP back to RMA stock (and pay for delivery), and Ruckus will send you replacement for free in ~4 weeks.  With advance replacement you open RMA case, Ruckus send you replacement NBD and arrange faulty device collection for free.  
5.  All ZD controllers and indoor APs are covered by limited life-time hardware warranty, even if you have no valid support contract. Outdoor APs have just 1 year warranty, but are even more reliable than indoor (for 10 years we had just 1 RMA for outdoor AP at all). 
6. I agree about need for button to buy support, I suppose reason for button missing is that most customers are corporations, never using such method. Anyway, reseller cut on support is almost 0%, there are also never discounts on support - it really goes to developers to make new software versions. And yes, renewal costs same as original support.
7. Normally, no reseller can sell ZD without at least 1 year support. So with 6 month old ZD you should have support, which probably isn't visible, as it was never activated. Support comes as activation code by e-mail to reseller, but if you have support code ever generated for you (it's specific to ZD s/n), you can use support chat on Ruckus support site.  Ruckus support will be able to check it for you by ZD serial number and help with activation. Support chat works very well -  Ruckus support chat really is better than any other vendor support I had experience with.
8. If ZD1200 will become EOL, you' ll probably prefer to use R720 as a Unleashed AP -- it will have almost same features as with ZD, and support is really cheap, as it covers only software updates, without any hardware (I mean ZD hardware). You can convert any AP to Unleashed firmware easy, and if you don't need upgrades, you even don't need any support. But I don't actually thing ZD1200 EOL  will happen any time soon, as it has enough resources to support new software. ZD3000 is stil there for 10 years... ZD1000/1100 had short life because of very limited RAM (128/256 MB).

Hope it will help somebody to use all you got from Ruckus, even if reseller isn't making good job to inform you...

Regards,
Eizens
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KJ

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Thank you SO much for that information! It explains so much.

You obviously have much more experience than I do, but suffice to say I was flat-out shocked at how good Ruckus tech support was. I had an R710 replaced under warranty (Ethernet jacks slowly failed) and the entire process was a marvel to say the least. They also solved an iOS battery drain, in detail. Really, really impressed, which is probably why I found so odd the contortions necessary to buy a support contract, or even to know which one to buy.

#8 was great advice, too. I'll have to investigate going Unleashed sooner than later. I have three R710 with two more APs waiting in the wings: my impression is that Unleashed can failover to another AP? Right now, I have no ZoneDirector failover at all, and it bugs me.

Again, thank you. I could've used the entire list at the start of being a Ruckus user!
(Edited)
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jjbase

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Thanks Eizens for the great insight.
My ZD1205 actually came with 90 days of bundled support, I bought it new from a random hardware reseller online, not sure if he was a specialized reseller. I chatted with support after the 90 days to enquire about the big red message above the Dashboard, I don’t think I had 1 year of support waiting to be activated back then.
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jjbase

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Ok installed 10.1, all good.
I had to do 9.12 -> 9.13 -> 10.1 to keep my config.
When I initially tried to do 9.12 -> 10.1 it wanted to force me to reset to factory default.
Support suggested the correct path.

I prefer the old clean fast 9.x interface as the new one is less usable from iPad, thank god it is still available at the old address (with /admin/ instead of /admin10/).
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jjbase

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I factory reset, connected wired to a PC with IP 192.168..0.x and subnet 255.255.255.0, went to the webinterface at 192.168.0.1, manually uploaded a standalone firmware the support gave me via email, then connected again to the ZD this time wired, so this time it was upgraded to the latest ZD-connected firmware no problem, then I put it back behind two hoops. (by the way I’m planning to eventually wire all my APs but for years ruckus mesh system was a rock solid life saver back when multi hoop mesh systems weren’t so fashionable in the consumer space...now everybody in the consumer space seems to have understood that all of a sudden..)
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KJ

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Woah, that is definitely tech support territory. It's nice to know Ruckus' has got their heads screwed on straight.
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jjbase

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Yes, actually they instructed me to do even more (basically clean all records of the AP in its previous incarnation from the ZD using some command line stuff) but it proved not to be necessary.
The process in itself wasn’t out of my reach, pretty run of the mill as far as troubleshooting home network devices goes, what was out of my reach is probably the R700 standalone firmware file itself, because apparently the R700 is EOLed already so you won’t find any software download on the site. Come to think of it, I should make a personal archive of these files for when all support for my devices is over or maybe Ruckus goes thru another ownership transition or something...
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KJ

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> ... what was out of my reach is probably the R700 standalone firmware file itself, because apparently the R700 is EOLed already so you won’t find any software download on the site.

That was indeed what I meant by tech support being necessary. I wasn't impugning your abilities!
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jjbase

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Np :) (and, as a not native speaker, I just learned a new verb with “impugning”)
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KJ

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Here's another data point. I was quoted and paid for 801-1205-1000 on April 5 from an online reseller (are we allowed to name companies here?). It took the distributor (not my reseller) a whole week (April 12) to get back to the reseller that the quote was missing a reinstatement fee, something needed when the previous support contract lapsed. Needless to say, both myself and the reseller were quite pissed off at the lackadaisical behavior by the Ruckus distributor.

(As an aside: how is it possible professional installers get anything done with this level of incompetence in the supply chain?! I know I'm a mere end-user with no power in the world, but the reseller is well-known at least online and serves many pros. Anyway, continuing with the story ...).

After the error was finally conveyed to the reseller, it took two more business days to sort that out and for Ruckus to finally send me the activation code, which I could activate online.

... only to discover that my contract was backdated to January 8, 2019. It so happens I did start speaking with my reseller at the beginning of the year (Jan 3, to be precise) but I can't fathom why it would have been picked up as the support contract start date when my payment date is clearly listed on the quote as April 5th.

Ruckus, seriously: either do some housecleaning with your distributors or just let us purchase support contracts directly with you online. Having to go through so many steps is entirely crazy especially with the likes of eero, Google Home, etc legitimately breathing down your necks! The Ruckus side (tech support and activation steps) were a total breeze -- it was just the purchasing part that was a nightmare.

At least I finally got 10.x installed on my ZD1200 and R710s. Very sweet -- and no more Java elements!
(Edited)
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jjbase

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Nice contribution.
My contract was backdated too, it started around the date of the original order from the reseller.
“How professionals get anything done?” Maybe they use Cisco :D Or maybe an IT department with the right connections.
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jjbase

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Yeah it was mostly a joke about Cisco, I too believe that Ruckus is unbeatable for the enthusiast home user and small business.
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KJ

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It sounds like you've been with Ruckus awhile. I only started a couple years ago when I moved house. Prior to moving in I had it entirely rewired with Cat6a — four jacks on almost every wall. 156 drops, I think it was.

The funny thing? I did it because I saw that even the then-king of consumer wireless mesh products — Sonos — could not reliably handle the plaster-and-lath walls of typical old Boston houses. Yeah that's right: Sonos made me rewire my new house, of all things! Of course, once I had decided to wire I then went full-out in order to be able to pipe PoE and HDBASE-T everywhere it could conceivably go.

Mesh is now well in consumers' hands thanks to the eeros of the world — but FaceTime roaming (802.11r/k) remains out-of-reach for those who need it. It still can't really handle horsehair plaster, either. So I thank Ruckus literally every time I Skype or FaceTime my kids' grandparents across the globe and move in and out of the house at will with nary a pixelated frame. Beauty.

Just ... they need to get this support contract purchasing straightened out. I'm not looking forward to renewing in a year — well, eight months, apparently.
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jjbase

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Not so long, I got the Ruckus bug from a youtube video 4 years ago. That video ended up costing me a lot of money. But boy it is another world compared to consumer stuff. And yes the peace of mind of r/k roaming is great, lots of iDevices in my household, interesting point I will now look for it every time I read about a new consumer mesh system.
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KJ

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> And yes the peace of mind of r/k roaming is great, lots of iDevices in my household, interesting point I will now look for it every time I read about a new consumer mesh system.

I don't follow consumer mesh products very closely, but my understanding is that the closest they've gotten to FaceTime roaming is 802.11r in eeros. However, eeros does not have the 802.11k which is necessary to close the loop on iDevice roaming. Accordingly, people report outright drops of FaceTime/Skype calling on eeros even to this day.

Ubiquiti's fast roaming tech is just not the same. Back in the day they had zero hand-off technology which was ... disappointing. Evidently the current APs still have roaming issues with video calling too.

I've come to the conclusion that you have to pay serious cash in order to get video calling roaming work properly. There are still no free lunches in wifi land.
(Edited)
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jjbase

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What strikes me about some consumer mesh systems is the dedicated 5Ghz backhaul to avoid halving the theoretical throughput at every mesh hoop. But I haven’t delved deep enough into actual performances to form an idea about this kind of systems. It eventually won’t matter any more when all my 5 APs will be wired and I will go from a multi hoop mesh to a purely wired roam.