Apple OSX devices getting no internet while connected to Ruckus APs

  • 6
  • Question
  • Updated 2 weeks ago
  • Answered
We have an environment with 36 R510 APs spread among 12 floors with 2 ZD1200's on the back end. We notice on a daily basis that random set of Wifi users cannot browse the internet or get disconnected in the middle of a video call even though they have full bars for Wifi.  This is an issue because the building is 100% wireless. We have turned off DFS channels, and tweaked power levels accordingly to minimize overlap. It seems that only Apple users are effected. Are there any known issues with Ruckus and Apple devices?
Photo of AO

AO

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 2 years ago

  • 6
Photo of Edward Newman

Edward Newman

  • 12 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
We see this issue too. Would love to understand a good set of techniques to diagnose such issues.
Photo of Aleksandar Radivojsa

Aleksandar Radivojsa

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi, I had similar issue in the past and found out that problem was caused by situation that there was many DHCP servers in the network. In that situation, Android devices worked normally, but iOS devices couldn't connect. You mentioned that you have two ZDs, so it reminded me to that case.
Photo of Michel Rougemont

Michel Rougemont

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I have the same issue, with only 1 ZD1200 managing my WiFi network...
Photo of AO

AO

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Bump to this issue. We identified that this affects Mac clients and not Windows clients.

Turning off roaming between APs and removing "dashes" in SSID temporarily solves the issues.

Do Macs handle roaming poorly with Ruckus? Can symbols in SSIDs affect Macs?
Photo of Antonio Sanchez

Antonio Sanchez

  • 5 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hello, I had the same problem, Windows users ran smoothly and Apple devices connected and disconnected randomly.
   I solved this by changing the encryption options, choosing only AES instead of TKIP+AES in the Wlans configuration. He hasn't given me any more trouble since then.

greetings.

Antonio
Photo of Simon Bryan

Simon Bryan

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Just posted a similar problem, we already use just AES. Our quick fix is to reboot the affected AP as it seems to suddenly impact on just one. Wondered whether it was some kind of attack from the user devices which are BYOD but the logs seem remarkably empty of any useful info, all I see is the reboot we trigger.
Photo of AO

AO

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Bump on this, seems like there are issues with Macs in particular. Has nothing to do with symbols in WiFi but roaming features intended to move devices to best coverage seems to “stall” Mac devices instead. What we observed are Macs that are connected at full strength (5 bars), will time out (stay connected), and either re-associate after a few minutes or user has to disconnect and reconnect manually to get internet again. Only Macs though, any idea why?
Photo of itdept_head me

itdept_head me

  • 21 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
We had MASSIVE problems with this , specifically macs & the WIFI chips and R500 /510 

we updated all macs to the latest os & then the  rucus to the latest firmwares.
turned off 2.4 and now we can roam over 3 floors.

We found that sometimes the macs  WILL NOT let go of a distant  AP, they fight to maintain the shitty signal even if a new ap is closer, so you might be stuck tied to a 50% sig and there is a 97% sitting over u.
cleaning out all the stupid "remembered" connections in the mac control panel goes a long way to helping.

it seems more of an issue with badly placed wifi points.
Then you get the nonsense with "dual points" where the mac  swaps between 2.4 & 5 depending on how it feels, seems swapping frequency AND AP does not cleanly maintain the connection.

then there is the issue of "sleep", if you are in a meeting room and tied to a WIFI & sleep, tehn come out of the room and relocate AP's... the mac just swallows packets,   turning the wifi on/off fixes it.

oh and YES .. symbols in the names WILL affect the mac, mac follows the RFC exactly.
strange chars, may not pass the unicode values correctly  "_-#[email protected]" etc
you will see the same with naming macs & DNS/ DHCP names.
(Edited)
Photo of AO

AO

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Wow this relates to our circumstances to a tee.
I am just dumbfounded how others , perhaps in bigger environments (schools, stadiums, etc.) that’s use Ruckus devices and support Mac users tolerate such poor interoperability.
Photo of RS

RS

  • 9 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
ditto on our corporate environment. This problem started from zone directors and now we still have it in Smartzone 100. Impossible to replicate but obviously everyone having the issue. All Ruckus has been recommending is controller upgrades and minor tweaks like ofdm only turn on and bss min tage adjustments which also changes with the change in Rep everytime. Now sure what else to do at this point. Even when the issue was happening we got on the call, but if there is no traffic passing, there is gonna be nothing on the capture obviously. But again, turn wifi on/off problem is fixed.
Photo of itdept_head me

itdept_head me

  • 21 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Yep...
I spent 4 months on this back it 2016, initially i was sorry I purchased ruckus, but then it sort of came together.

I got really angry with apple, becasue if you go to "sys-info" ->wifi
and make a note of the : (they stripped a lot of the info out....), 

Card Type: AirPort Extreme  (0x14E4, 0x134)
Firmware Version: Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (7.21.95.178.1a2)

you will find macs from EXACTLY the same family with specific revisions of the BC chipset
BUT with different FW versions!!!!!, ESP. if they are from different years of production.

when you update a mac it DOES NOT update everything at a system level, apple DOES NOT keep the internal FW's updated and in sync. (no FW is NOT available)

So you might have two 'identical'   "MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)"
but the damned  BC FW is NOT the same!!!, how the hell can any system be reliable & stable , using such poor attitudes.

We....   me .. apple.. ruckus, identified a specific issue with sleep, where RCs was "closed out" due to time out, but since the mac was woken from sleep, it still considered the "link" to be alive..
we clearly saw packets going out from apple kit and disappearing into the "ether"
Much of this should have been fixed in later  os updates of both sides.


Now my kit in factory location is fine over 3 floors of production area  (110M long)& passes off nicely as long as it cannot see distant WIFI points it tied to previously & moved whilst sleeping.
but now users just toggle the wifi if it gets "stuck" (we have seen AP hand off stuck with other brands of kit as well)

as long as my mac does not sleep... i can freely wander about our sites and no handover issues.
and  currently i have about 160 devices on WIFI... in this 1 location.
I think it is tolerated  because:
1. the mix of devices is less legacy
2. Due to pixel masterbation... kit does not sleep so much.
(Edited)
Photo of Craig Caruso

Craig Caruso

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
So the outcome is to turn off 2.4 Ghz on the AP's and/or Zone Director?
Photo of izagatsky

izagatsky

  • 3 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Turning off 2.4 GHz helps but doesn't fully solve the issue. We turned off 2.4 GHz last summer and have had less complaints about slowness (from connections to distant APs), but still sometimes have to have mac laptops turn airport off and back on to re-connect. iPads and iPhones support 802.11r and don't seem to have the same issues.
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
We're seeing this same issue again with the latest 10.1.1.0 build 26. I have an open case with Ruckus but again since it is so intermittent and our campus is so large (131 AP's and growing), I'm having trouble nailing anything down. High Sierra "seems" to be stable but with over 1500 devices, getting everything up to date is a nightmare.
Photo of Jonas Back

Jonas Back

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi, did you get any further on your case?

Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Issue is persisting across 10.0.x and 10.1.x builds. Ruckus is working with Apple on the issue I opened a case about. Ours is more specifically tied to 802.1x wlans. WPA wlans are not seeing the issue.
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi, did you get a resolution to this issue? We are facing the same issue with 802.1x wlans
Photo of David Henderson

David Henderson

  • 103 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
We have 410 R710s on campus using two virtual smartzone controllers. We have a large number of district owned devices as well as personal devices on our wireless network. We made the decision when we installed the network that district owned devices would be on 5GHz and personal devices on 2.4GHz. In other words, all of our district owned Windows laptops, Mac laptops, and Chromebooks would connect at 5GHz, they cannot jump to 2.4. For our Mac and Windows laptops we use 802.1x and onboard them using Cloudpath. Chromebooks are a hassle on 802.1x so they are on a separate SSID using WPA2-PSK.

All of our MacBook Pros are running High Sierra and working quite well, even with roaming. We are using the latest firmware with our vSZ controllers. Now, I say working quite well since end users are not complaining. We have a lot of MacBook Pros so I am assuming if they were not working well we would have heard end user complaints.
Photo of David Henderson

David Henderson

  • 103 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
I should have mentioned that at 5Ghz we are on a fixed channel/fixed power plan. This was all done using a physical site survey. At 2.4 we let the APs change channels and power levels if needed
Photo of walid walid

walid walid

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I have an open case with Ruckus yet again since it is so irregular and our grounds is so extensive (131 AP's and developing), I'm experiencing difficulty nailing anything down
Photo of wahidovic

wahidovic

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I have an open case with Ruckus yet again since it is so irregular and our grounds is so extensive (131 AP's and developing), I'm experiencing difficulty nailing anything down
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes

So I decided to do some more research and see if a similar issue has been reported to other wireless vendors. I came across this, which is quite old but the issue is very similar.  I have made the suggested changes of scenario 1 on all three of our controllers and will see what happens when the users return from the holiday. 

https://community.cisco.com/t5/wireless-mobility-documents/apple-macbook-pro-dropping-wireless-connection/ta-p/3116976
Photo of Tram Tran

Tram Tran

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Any update to this change? Would love to know the outcome.
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
No this does not seem to have helped. I have also deployed a vSZ and migrated the AP's of affected users and that difference has not helped either. Ruckus claims that Apple has yet to determine the root cause from the Apple Diagnostic files we have sent them.
Photo of Celab Support

Celab Support

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
In our case we got this suggestion from technical support

"Could you please enable the Proxy Arp and Increase the Inactivity Timeout to Max 1000 on the WLAN and see if this helps fix the issue"

This change fixed the issues for our iOS clients.




Photo of Thiago Alves

Thiago Alves

  • 11 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Same here, 400 macs fleet and 2k more windows fleet. Just Macs on Catalina are affected. Tried everything.
Photo of Michael Brado

Michael Brado, Official Rep

  • 3108 Posts
  • 453 Reply Likes
Hi Thaigo,
    Please open a case so we can look at logs.  Catalina wasn't available in 2017 when this thread was started.
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hello Brado,

Are there solutions for the same issue for devices on High Sierra and Mojave?
Photo of Warren Grieve

Warren Grieve

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Have you had  a fix yet for the Catalina issue? We are having this on test installs of Catalina.
Photo of Michael Brado

Michael Brado, Official Rep

  • 3108 Posts
  • 453 Reply Likes
Hi Warren,

   I just read news from our SEs that upgrading Catalina to 10.15.1 resolved all their Customer's MAC issues.

   There was an Apple thread about needing to power off/on to restore access thru wifi.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/118780/wifi-doesnt-work-unless-i-turn-it-off-then-on-again


Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
So here's my latest findings on this issue.

I recently migrated from a single node vSZ to a two node cluster running 5.1.1.0.598. While working with support to get the licenses migrated we chatted about this issue. Two things came out of the conversation which I am in the process of implementing.

First, We switched from Proxy (controller) based RADIUS to AP based RADIUS. I had opted against this in our original deployment years ago because I did not want to create ~200 RADIUS Clients on each RADIUS server. Turns out, if all your APs are on the same subnet, you can specify that subnet CIDR as the IP and cover all APs in a single entry. Then you configure your WLANs to use an AP RADIUS auth method.

Secondly, 5.1.1.0.598 apparently has a known issue in which the RADIUS service restarts unexpectedly. This is supposedly resolved in 5.1.2. I am planning a maintenance window to perform this update after I let the AP auth changes settle.
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 11 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Any documentation on how to setup Wlans to use AP Radius auth? 
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Navigate to Services + Profiles\Authentication. The first tab is Non Proxy.
Create your RADIUS config
Add the IP subnet to your RADIUS servers with the same Shared Secret
On the WLAN, disable the Authentication service Use controller as Proxy toggle to switch and select the AP Non proxy server you created.
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 11 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Doesn't seem like this option exists on the Zone Director
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
That is correct. My apologies. When I first found this thread, I was using a ZD3000 and seeing this issue. We then switched to a vSZ environment and continued to see the symptoms which is why i have continued to post my findings.
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 11 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
About an year ago you indicated that Apple was working with Ruckus following the ticket you raised. Did anything come out of it? I currently have an open ticket with Ruckus but we don't seem to be making any progress, just packet capture after packet capture. I am considering going back to WPA2.
Photo of EightOhTwoEleven

EightOhTwoEleven

  • 122 Posts
  • 30 Reply Likes
I might just implement this change at one of our sites.
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
I don't recall when i finally got response from ruckus but it was less than helpful. Basically Apple did acknowledge an issue with a specific combination of Macbook/OS level and was only issuing for a patch for a subset of these and claimed it was resolved further in Mojave. I think this has actually been resolved yet. We'll see what happens with 5.1.2
Photo of EightOhTwoEleven

EightOhTwoEleven

  • 122 Posts
  • 30 Reply Likes
We're running 5.1.2 and are seeing the connected clients but no internet problem.
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
So are you saying the issue is actually resolved in 5.1.2? I think we have trained our users the quick fix of turning WiFi off and on again, that I don’t really know how prevalent the problem is still.
Photo of EightOhTwoEleven

EightOhTwoEleven

  • 122 Posts
  • 30 Reply Likes
No, I'm saying is that we are on 5.1.2 and are still seeing this occur.
Photo of Andrew Giancola

Andrew Giancola

  • 143 Posts
  • 48 Reply Likes
So, connected clients who have no internet! Do you have Pcaps??
Photo of EightOhTwoEleven

EightOhTwoEleven

  • 122 Posts
  • 30 Reply Likes
Help Desk, what was the reasoning going from controller proxy to AP auth for RADIUS. Did support mention a performance increase?
Photo of Help Desk

Help Desk

  • 11 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
The reasons for the switch was to allow for less disruption during controller upgrades that will take several hours. The second reason was that the support rep said this could address the radius restart issue currently identified in 5.1.1 and supposedly resolved in 5.1.2
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi everyone,

Any news about how to solve the issue with random WiFi disconnects on MacBooks? Newest Catalina OS version 10.15.2 gives the same user experience as the previous one 10.15.1. -Dissatisfying as of february 2020. Obviously it does not help to open a case with Ruckus. I see that it has been lasting in a couple of years with iOS pc-es.  Any other experienced professionals who can help with this issue? Recomendations? Contacts? I am eager to solve this case once and for all. Thanks in advance!
Photo of David Henderson

David Henderson

  • 103 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
We are getting zero disconnects on our Ruckus networks with MacBooks. We do have our network divided with all school districts owned laptops on 5GHz and guest devices on 2.4GHz. This prevents band switching, perhaps give that a try. We are using vSZ and R710APs
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Useful recommendation David. Will give it a try. We really do not have frequency division on this site. So it is both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Although customers are not complaining about the speed, so I assumed that is working fine on this site. We are using vSZ and R510 APs.
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I am curious as well whether it has smth to do with Authentication type. Any difference between SSID with preshared key or Secure SSID with Certificate for a device?
Photo of murimig

murimig

  • 11 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi David,

Are you using WPA2 or Enterprise for authentication?
Photo of Kevin

Kevin

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
What model Mac laptops are having the issue with Catalina?   We noticed that our 2018 and newer models work fine but older models are the issue.  Seems to be hardware problem for Apple as Ruckus is not the only wifi vendor with this complaint/issue and yet Apple is zero help.
(Edited)
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Good question Kevin. I will check out MacBook models at the customer tomorrow. Shall give a further notice.
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Kevin, did you open a case with Ruckus on this issue  or Catalina users just learnt to switch wifi on, each time it disconnects?
Photo of Kevin

Kevin

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
We worked with Ruckus support for months and never found the actual root cause.  We did immediately notice that all our 2019 Mac's worked without issue on High Sierra and Catalina, but older Mac's still had/have the issue.   Our engineers created a script for the touch bar so they could just hit a button and it would disable and enable wifi.  Horrible, but it worked for them as we phase out replace older models.  Neither Ruckus or Apple ever confirmed that it was a Apple issue but it clearly has something to do with the hardware used in the older laptops.
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Your challenge sharing was much of a help Kevin! Thanks a lot for such a good description! Anyway I am going to find out which year are those MacBook models customer users have issues with. Stay tuned for statistics info from Norway:)
(Edited)
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi Kevin,
3 Macbooks which experience wifi disconnect problems are as follows:
1. MacBook  Air (early 2015) Catalina 10.15.2
2. Macbook (2017) Catalina 10.15.3
3. Macbook Air (2018) Catalina 10.15.2

Was it up to 2018 year model Macbooks had difficulties and from 2019 did not? or no difficulties from 2018 year model?
Photo of Kevin

Kevin

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
The issue was never fixed for any models prior to 2019.  We even had a $500 case open with Apple and they would not officially state the problem was hardware specific to models older then 2019 but they closed our case and said that 2019 models on Mojave and newer should not experience the issue.  That has been our experience.  We no longer have the random wifi lost connectivity on our 2019 Mac's.  All the older models still experience it and our users just disconnect and reconnect. 
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Kevin, then it confirms our case as well. It became even more evident now. I wonder whether you troubleshooted the device connection in vSZ and saw those disconnects? I have a weird situation, when Macbook 2018 experience disconnect, while user moves within the office to nearest meeting room and I do not see this disconnect in troubleshooting in vSZ. Did you have such an experience when case was opened? Which country are you in by the way?
Photo of Kevin

Kevin

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
We have and for those we discovered a new issue on Smartzone that was causing those clients to lose their IP and get a default 169.254.0.0/16 IP.  Ruckus has confirmed that issue as a bug and supposedly fixed in Smartzone 5.2.  We are waiting for another 5.2.x release that is supposed to have that fix as well as dozens of others that are all impacting us.   We are located in SouthEast United States.
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Nice talking to you, Kevin! Thank you for sharing your experience! It cleared out the view for us so much!
Photo of Liliia

Liliia

  • 14 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
By the way, Kevin, we experience DHCP fail for those Macbooks as well. In addition EAP, association fail and 4 improper handshake. I can write more precise fail definition tomorrow.  Sounds that familiar to you?
Photo of Kevin

Kevin

  • 25 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
We have not experienced any DHCP issues.
Photo of David Henderson

David Henderson

  • 103 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
WPA2-Enterprise. We have all of our Macs on boarded to our 802.1x network (EAP-TLS) using Cloudpath. We push out the settings for this using Jamf and it works great