7731 PtMP to AP's instead of to another 7731

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Can a 7731 be used in PtMP mode to shoot a signal to 7363 AP's? (or other Ruckus AP's ?)

I have a situation where i need to get signal inside some apartments across a parking lot from where the WAN equipment is and its proved difficult so far with a 7762 - i do get a signal in those apartments from a 7762 but its very weak.

Since i had a lightning strike to that 7762 i only have 7731's left in stock (local Ruckus agent does not keep stocks in country so long lead times to get radios)

So in order to get this job done i have to use what i have at hand.

I have 4 x 7731's and 8 x 7363's plus a few other AP's (7321, 7341, 7982 that i brought in so i could actually see the product as the agent does not do this)

So the question - can i use a 7731 in PtMP mode to get a signal to a 7363 (since dual band)?

If i cant do that to a 7363 AP , would a 7982 AP be any different?

If possible i dont want to use a 7731 on each end then run ethernet from the 7731 to one of the indoor radios i have.

Will what i propose work? If not how else can i do this?
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Mark Young

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Posted 4 years ago

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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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Sure it will. No problem. You could also combine 7731 backhaul with MESH on 7363. So run a PtP to a few 7363s and EMSH to some others, IF you have a ZD that is. You could also MESH 7363s with 7982s.

One thing that could give you a little trouble is the distance of 7731s on those apartments. If they don't have RF "sight" of each other you might encounter some interference issues, but we'll solve that one if you encounter it.

Go ahead and play.
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Mark Young

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Thanks Primoz - saves loads of time "playing" with something that may or may not work.

OK so great - 7731 in PtMTP -> 7363 in Mesh mode

Will try this.

Thx
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Roberto Flores

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Mark,
I work for Ruckus and have been working with 7731s for a while. We have not ever recommended connecting 7363s (or other APs) with 7731s. The 7731 can only be setup in PTMP with each other. 7363s can only be setup in Mesh if they're ZD controlled and the 7731 is not ZD controlled. Our Ruckus Engineers could probably bypass and connect them but it's not customer recommended or supported at the moment.
Thank you.
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Mark Young

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Robert,

OK got that. I was messing with this yesterday and sort of came to the conclusion that a 7363 in mesh mode was not going to work via a 7731 - at least the way i had in mind anyway.

So your post saves me lots of time messing around only to find i cant do what i wanted to.

If only Ruckus dealers kept real stocks of AP's and we didn't have to wait weeks and weeks for AP's to show up - i would not have tried this if i could get a new AP fast enough.

I have a job to get done for a client and trying to use what i have on hand, hence this strange way of trying to do things.

I've had this whinge about stocks with the Ruckus GOD's in this part of the world but it falls on deaf ears. Wonderful product though - i wouldn't want to use anything else ! So in love with Ruckus here!!
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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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This one was probably my fault a bit. I probably didn't explain it 100%. What I ment was to run a few PtPs or PtMPs with 7731 only, and connect 7363 via cable to the remote locations. Or use MESH to connect 7363s ONLY, not 7731 with 7363.

Sory for the dookie.
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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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Regarding your quote: "If only Ruckus dealers kept real stocks of AP's and we didn't have to wait weeks and weeks for AP's to show up - i would not have tried this if i could get a new AP fast enough"

I can say that Ruckus' lead times are anywhere from 3 to 12 weeks. So plan your stock on that :)
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Mark Young

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Hey no problem Primoz...i appreciate the intended help.

Its all a learning curve.

As for stocks...... dont get me started on this one. I love the product ...Ruckus RF is simply the best out there - its totally amazing where i can get good usable signal from one AP.

But no matter which way you cut it, slice it or dice it, this is expensive kit. Its a hard sell on a client who does not "get" the RF angles. Then when you finally land a customer and find you need this or that AP for the particular job .....we cant get it for extended lead times.

At these prices there should be plenty of stock in country - but there never is and Ruckus don't seem too interested in our plight. Business is brutal as it is.....landing a job then waiting and waiting for the kit is just not good. At these prices it should not fall upon me to be a pseudo stockist of this great and wonderful RF technology.

I am not going to stop using this gear as it is the best out there but Ruckus ..really?
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Mark Young

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I'd be interested to hear what Ruckus have to say about this problem. Great kit but if its not around when i need it, then.....whats the point?

Keith?
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Keith - Pack Leader

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We operate through our channel partners (Distributors and VARs) and so we don't really control what is stocked where - only the lead times are (somewhat) under our control. So this is really more of a question for your local distributor. We are relatively new in many regions of the world, and so in the absence of historical demand data, vendors may be understandably cautious in stocking. A phone call from their customers often works wonders :)
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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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Well, you need to have some stock. That goest with the territory of being a VAR or a distributor, but yeah, lead times are ridiculous sometimes.

But I'd disagree with you on the price. RW is by far the cheapest solution out there. When you take into account the fact you have to have less APs or get higher BW with the same amount, you realize that it's the least expensive.

I remember we lost a project to Mikrotik a few years ago as we were some 2000€ more expensive in a project worth around 50k€. But now they have Mikrotik that actually doesn't work as it should. I'd say that costs them infinity more than RW that does work.
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Kalyan, Employee

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Hi Mark,

As Primoz mentioned setup a PtoMP link using whatever number of 7731s you have. Then connect a 7363 or a 7982 to the NRB using a cable. You can call this a RAP. You can have other APs mesh to it if you really want it. Alternately, if the setup permits, connect a switch to each NRB and then connect how many number of APs you want in each building to this switch.
Please make a note that 7731 provides a directional coverage (unless you use an external antenna). Hopefully all your buildings are within the coverage beamwidth.
Just to close this, mesh needs a ZD.

All the best.

Kalyan
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Kalyan, Employee

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Hi Mark,

Hopefully you are talking to Michael and Rob on this. We are here to support as well.

Kalyan
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Mark Young

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@Kieth,

Yes understand. I have been working with our Ruckus GOD in this part of the world about this ...its been going on for well over a year now. Still the same story.

Example.....i just landed a new hotel to outfit with Ruckus gear. I had 2 x 7762's on hand. I need 3. Installed the 2 x 7762's and they do a WONDERFUL AMAZING INCREDIBLE job. Can you tell i LOVE ruckus? But i have to shoot a signal to an apartment complex that is part of this hotel. Its across a car park, so cant get a cable over there. Mesh is the answer. Need another 7762 to close the mesh link. I didn't have one (do now - thanks to the fantastic support Ruckus provide - managed to resuscitate a 7762 that we thought was dead) So i tried to come up with a way to use what we do have in stock (7731's). If i had to order a 7762 i would have to wait 2 to 3 weeks to get it - the hotel wont wait that long.

Now as professionals in this trade we all "get" the issues. The customer doesn't. The customer has a lot of choices and providers chasing their business. I am the one who got it. Now i need to perform. But i cant get the radios i need, like, yesterday. This is a problem and Ruckus does not seem to understand this. I have a business to run, employees to pay. Business is hard to get as it is. I land a peachy job but cant get my chosen radio tech...frustrating!!

Bottom line is the tech is the best. Really. The supply not so great......
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Mark Young

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@Primoz

Ummm, i beg to differ. It cost me 2K to land a 7762 in our country with import costs and duties/local taxes. I see the prices online in the US and cry. If only i could get them here that cheap. Alas, it will never be.

But i do concur 100% that we use less radios per site then anything else i have ever used. Its simply amazing how far the signal off a 7762 goes!!

If anyone who reads this and thinks this is hyped up marketing BS...its not! You just have to see this to believe it !!

I'm not sure whats happening in your market but here everyone and i mean EVERYONE goes for Ubiquity NanoStations and others in the Ubiquity family. Of course its not even close in terms of quality and signal range/throughput. But the market wants cheap and Ubiquity give it to them. Bottom line is you and i can sit here all day extolling the virtues of Ruckus over .......(fill in the blank) while the end user is demanding cheap and cheerful and is largely uneducated on Wifi WAN links and quality and now thinks wi-fi is cheap as chips and gasp absolute horror when i mention the price of Ruckus gear.

Of course those of us who are professionals in the trade know better. So the job is to sell to the unwashed masses and convert them. Made Sooooooo much harder when we cant get the stock we need, because the local agent simply does not keep stock. At all. Period ! Not even power supplies which blow here on an almost weekly basis because our power grid is so poor.

But i do understand the situation. Ruckus is expensive (here at least) and the market has numerous choices (we have a really switched on Trendnet agent here - a real go getter and he gets the lion share of the professional market here...LOTS of Trendnet stock in this country...except i am loyal to Ruckus and therefore get left without radios when i need them.) and given the local penchant for cheap cheap cheap, its going to be an uphill battle to get Ruckus embedded in this country. So i can see why the local agent is leery about sinking 50K into stocks of Ruckus gear.

If i were the agent here i'd do it, but i am not ( please please please Ruckus - test us out on this and see if we are willing to put our money where our mouth is - you might be surprised how quickly we place that 50K order for stock). We are just the lowly installers who make all this magic that Ruckus provide, happen. ;-)
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Mark Young

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@ Kalyan

Thank you for your reply and jumping in on this.

We have managed to resuscitate what we thought was a dead 7762. So we are now going to deploy that in this situation and can avoid the use of 7731's for now. What really puts me off using the 7731's is that they are not under ZD control. I need the visibility as we manage the site from far far away.

At another site we did use EMAP's and this worked wonderfully.

At the end of the day there is no substitute for education - we need to do Ruckus training as the product line is extensive and many things are possible with this wonderful gear.

Edit: sorry forgot to add - yes we do work with Michael and he is great. He really jumps around to help us when needed - no problem there at all. Ruckus support is 1st rate all the way with whoever we work with when we turn to Ruckus for help. But i Guess Michael has no control over what the in country agent stocks.

I do understand all the angles here and see no way to solve the issue unless Ruckus can find someone locally who wants to dive in and stock and support the product. Its going to be a leap of faith on the part of the in country agent to drop at least 50K on stock and spares and commit to sending staff to the US for training on an ongoing basis....but hey if you want to be agent you should commit to this ..right?

All of this comes under the heading of supply. I'm not sure whats happening in other parts of the world, but here its just not sorted ....yet.

But when it comes to RF design, Ruckus have killed it!!! Ruckus RF design is simply amazing stuff!!

So although supply is a thorn in my side, i'm not leaving Ruckus anytime soon :-)
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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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@Mark. Two points

1. 7731 can be managed via FlexMaster all the ZDs and Stand-alone APs also

2. If you are selling APs to customers you will loose most of the time. If you sell a working solution you will win 80% of the "fair fights" like we do. Ubiquity is SOHO not enterprise. Fact.
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Mark Young

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1/ Ok so not sure about this - i need to get one of 7731's hooked up to see if the ZD can manage it or not (Robert says it cant - "7363s can only be setup in Mesh if they're ZD controlled and the 7731 is not ZD controlled"). You say it can, and i can see from your many posts you have deep experience in the product.

2/ Totally agree Ubiquity is SOHO. My point is the wi-fi uneducated masses go this way 90% of the time. Fact.

3/ I've taken to insisting that if my end users want support they must use Ruckus radios - so far I've used a ZD at each installation but this is costly. I saw in another thread the idea of using a VM ZD - GREAT IDEA !!!! If we could have this we could absolutely kill it here.

4/ I've got a Flexmaster licence and servers in the cloud to set it up on - just have not set it up yet. So will get to that soon because i am now starting off to install stand alone Ruckus AP's - simply cant justify the cost of the ZD at most sites. Hotels are different of course - but for a small office a ZD just does not fly - but we need the visibility. Hoping Flex master gives us what we need.

However when we do have a ZD at site - it is really really nice to have that level of control and visibility. No question about it.

4/ You seem to have great knowledge and experience in Ruckus - would love to have you on my team - FACT :-)
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Primož Marinšek, AlphaDog

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1. No no no. 7731 can't be managed via ZD. only by FM!!! But you can manage APs and ZD via FM also.

3. I don't expect ZD on VM to be cheap. You need the VM + the ZD licence which RW will probably price the same.

4. Skype is m4r1n1ch. Contact me and we'll talk :)
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Mark Young

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1. Got it. Need to get my FM up and running to see what we get out of it. Hopes are high for excellence and my guess is it probably is the best thing since sliced bread knowing how Ruckus do everything else..

2. Agree on all points - except once you have the VM platform in place we can do so many other things with it. So even if it costs the same as a ZD in the end we are still so much further ahead because of other services we can deploy on the hardware. With a ZD i can only manage AP's, with a VM platform the world is my oyster!

3. Indeed, lets talk.